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Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: All right, thank you so much. Hello, and welcome, everyone, to the At-Large Welcome Session to ICANN 87. My name is Michelle DeSmyter. I'm the Remote Participation Manager for today's session.

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Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: And please note that this session is being recorded and archived. And as a reminder, participation in ICANN, including this meeting today, is governed by the ICANN Expected Standards of Behavior.

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Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: the ICANN Community Anti-Harassment Policy, and the ICANN Community Participant Code of Conduct Concerning Statements of Interest.

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Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: Please remember to sign into Zoom, as questions will be taken via hands raised in the Zoom room only.

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Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: During today's session, questions or comments will only be read aloud if submitted within the Q&A pod. Interpretation for today's session will include English, French, and Spanish.

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Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: If you would like to speak during the session, please raise your hand in Zoom, and when called upon, virtual participants will be given permission to unmute in Zoom. On-site participants will use a physical microphone to speak.

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Michelle DeSmyter - ICANN Org: Please state your name for the record, the language you will speak, if speaking a language other than English, and please speak at a reasonable pace. And with this, I will now hand the floor over to Jonathan Zuck, ALAC Chair.

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MTS AV: All right, good morning, welcome.

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MTS AV: ICANN87 here in Bali, excited to be here. Thanks, everyone, for being here. This is a big meeting, an annual January meeting, so there's more of us here than at any other time.

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MTS AV: So if we need to mix it up with any of the other SOs or ACs, this is when we have the most muscle in town.

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MTS AV: So this is our opportunity to take them if we need to.

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MTS AV: It's also a time of transition for us, so we have, both incoming and outgoing, members of the ALAC and the RALA leadership.

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MTS AV: that we will go over in some detail as we go along.

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MTS AV: This is my last meeting as chair, and Claire will be taking over as chair at the end of this meeting. So.

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MTS AV: Again, we'll talk about that as we go further on.

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MTS AV: We,

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MTS AV: have a lot of sessions ourselves, plenaries in which we're participating, but also space to participate in the meetings of others. There's a lot going on because of the new round being open, etc. So, let's make sure that we're well engaged around the community.

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MTS AV: And to that end, we've invited our board member.

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MTS AV: Lynn, Santos to come and give us a little bit of a overview of what's been happening with the board.

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MTS AV: Thank you very much, Jonathan, and as usual, I will switch to Spanish, so if you want to take advantage of the…

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MTS AV: Interpretation services, please.

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MTS AV: kindly, use your headset.

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MTS AV: Okay, I think everyone's ready now.

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MTS AV: Bien, pues, muchas gracias por invitarme, no hamente con ustedes.

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MTS AV: Este es una reunion, pues, importante para mi. Como saben, este mi ultima reunion como miembro del board, que ha hacia seleccionado por atlar. E tenido el privilegio y el honor de, pues, servir a esta comunidad.

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MTS AV: Que tanto quiero a la que pertenezco y a la que definitivamente quien so regresar.

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MTS AV: No se van a desaser de mi.

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MTS AV: Y medar mucho gusto poder seguir contribuyendo en, pues, nuevos roles, en nuevos papeles que puedan assignarme donde crean que puedo contribuir, y lo seguir haciendo con mucho gusto.

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MTS AV: Como saben, el word…

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MTS AV: Siempre se reune previo al nicio de las reuniones publicas de Aikan. Ademas de reunirnos otras tres veces a lo largo del ano para tener talleres o workshops como los llamamos en ingles.

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MTS AV: Y durante estos workshops, pues obviamente aprovechamos para desaugar differentes temas que tenemos en la agenda, y que deben de ser atendidos por la junta directiva.

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MTS AV: Esta vez no ha sido la incepcion. Tenemos una reunion en curso. Comenzamos el dia de a year.

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MTS AV: Y, pues el dia de ayer, basicamente tuvimos vayas sesiones privadas en las que aprovechamos la oportunidad para estar, mas bien, de que estamos todos juntos.

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MTS AV: Para tocar differentes temas desde governanca interna del board, nuestras interacciones con el CEO y con la organizacion.

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MTS AV: Tigamos los temas que… Probablemente no estan en la agenda, pero que van surgiendo y que es necesario empezar a tocar y a atenderdes de la perspectiva.

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MTS AV: del Board y nuestras obligaciones de supervision sobre la organizacion.

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MTS AV: Y bueno, pues, ayer tuvimos estas sesiones, insisto privadas, tocamos diferentes temas o algunas actualizaciones por parte de nuestra chair de Tripti Sinja, y, pues, tuvimos intercambios muy…

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MTS AV: Muy productivos, as in Punto de Vista, respecto de diferentes temas, insisto principalmente temas intermos del voz.

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MTS AV: Tuvimos tambien una sesion publica, como saben tambien tratamos de mantener

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MTS AV: una costumbre de reunirnos con los diferentes comites y con los diferentes organizaciones de supporte para que, pues.

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MTS AV: Todo los miembros del board conoscan que es lo que hace cada uno de estos organismos dentro de Aiken.

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MTS AV: Y bueno, pues, obviamente, como tenemos nuevos miembros entrando y saliendo al vor todo el tiempo, pues, es una costumbre que maintenemos continuamente para, pues, mantener fresco el conocimiento de todos los miembros del vorte, respecto de las diferentes partes.

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MTS AV: que integran a nuestras comunidads.

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MTS AV: El dia de ayer, la oportunidad fue con el non-contracted party house.

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MTS AV: estudiaron con nosotros, y tocamos principalmente los temas parte de la IPC, el tema de la precision, de data accuracy, y de el acceso a los datos.

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MTS AV: las procupaciones que ellos tienen, como parte del no contracted party house. Y tambien, escuchamos, pues digamos la outra cara de la moneda por parte de la NCUC, and donde, bueno, pues, como saben.

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MTS AV: dentro del propio ecosistema, dentro de las propias organizaciones, pues puede haber puntos de vista diversos, muchas veces completamente opuestos.

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MTS AV: Y pues justamente en el tema de proteccion de datos es uno de los ejemplos en los que una de las extremos de la casa, no?

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MTS AV: Si de la casa de los no contracted parties tiene una vision, la otra parte de esa casa tiene una vision completamente puesta, y bueno, pues la discusion y el debate fue interesante.

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MTS AV: Y ahi me parecio muy productivo porque fue una oportunidad para poder escuchar con sinceridad y con profesionalismo, las diferentes posturas.

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MTS AV: Algunos pueden pensar que salieron chispas en esa reunion, y un poco de eso, pero siempre fueron chispas muy profesionales y muy respetosas. Entonces, se disfruto bastante.

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MTS AV: Todimos tambien, vamos a tener dos reuniones publicas del border, esta semana y la que viene, y, pues, tomamos tambien esto por dia para revisar todas las resoluciones que se estaran

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MTS AV: Discutiendo y votando en esas reuniones. El dia de hoy estaremos tambien revisando diferentes temas de interes que sabemos que el interes a la comunidad y que se tocaran a lo largo de esta semana en esta reunion.

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MTS AV: Y, pues, veremos tambien cuales son los temas de politicas que estan en curso, y, pues, la forma en la que podemos nosotros contribuir a que avanzen estas politicas y que se implementen como debe de ser.

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MTS AV: Vamos a tener tambien una reunion que tiene que ver con la governanza de los operadores de los servidores raiz, de esta politica que esta implementandose. Tambien algo al respecto de las auction proceeds.

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MTS AV: No, como sabemos estamos ya, pues empleno movimiento con esta nueva ronda de nuevos que teledes. Biene tambien la fecha de revelacion de…

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MTS AV: de estos nos reteles, y bueno, posiblemente va existiva an existir varias dynamicas, moviendose alrededor de este proceso.

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MTS AV: Vamos a hablar tambien de el review or reviews. Como saben este grupo esta trabajando en presentar una nueva propuesta para reformar el sistema de revisiones que tenemos actualmente en ICANN.

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MTS AV: Y, pues, a me para se que llega en un momento, pues, no solo adecuado, sino muy symbolico, no, porque, pues, estamos cumpliendo 10 anos de la transicion de Illana.

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MTS AV: Y, pues, me aparece que parte de lo que se estar revisando es justamente culpa de quienes llevamos a cabo la transicion. Las cosas no salieron con mesperabamos.

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MTS AV: Y bueno, no que es asi que todo ha sido malo, pero si, definitivamente ibuel buenas cosas que no funcionaron como nosotros creiamos que van a funcionar, y pues este ejercicio del Review of Reviews es una buena oportunidad para replantiar que es lo que fallo, no?

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MTS AV: Como se puede remediar y tomar nuevos pasos para poder pues garantizar que exista una rendizion de cuenta, son a transparencia y una estructura de cuada a las necesidades del momento que vive actualmente la organizacion.

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MTS AV: Tambien, como saben, como se los mencionado al principio, pues yo estare ya concluyendo mi mandato.

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MTS AV: en el borde, pero no soy el unico miembro del borde que termina su mandato. Tambien Sara Deutsch y Nico Caballero terminan sus mandatos en esta reunion. Y pues, tenemos tambien la costumbre de tomarnos un momento como miembros digamos alientes del borde.

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MTS AV: Para compartir nuestras impresiones, y pues ofrecer algunos consejos, algunas reflexiones a los miembros que permanece en el borde, y eso tambien lo habemos el dia de hoy.

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MTS AV: Pablo Sotelo tambien una platica con el ombuds, con estra ombuds, el dia de manana.

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MTS AV: Vamos a revisar cuestiones tambien de el Comite de Riesgos, algunas discusiones sobre governance a internet en preparacion a la plenipotenciaria de 2026. Tambien seguramente estaremos hablando sobre el tema de el IGF, que se llevar a cabo en Nairobi, en Dieciembre.

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MTS AV: Y, bueno, pues, vamos a…

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MTS AV: continuar revisando el estatus de esta nueva ronda de nuevos gente les des, y concluiremos con, pues, esta reunion publica del borde, donde insisto se su meteran a votacion y probablemente se aprobaran diferentes resoluciones.

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MTS AV: Eso es en lo que estamos en estos dias. Medan mucho gusto tambien compartirles que Justin, que sera aqui en to me mi lugar, que me relave en el encargo antelvord.

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MTS AV: Ya esta completamente integrada, Alvor. Ha estado trabajando muy activamente como ese ella.

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MTS AV: Y, pues, ya contribuyendo al 100% con esa energia y esas ideas que ya siempre aporta.

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MTS AV: Entonces, creo que la representacion de la Arche se queda en excelentes manos.

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MTS AV: Yo quiero agradecerles a todos por su apoyo continuo, por la confianza que depositaron en mi, por la oportunidad que medieron de servirlos, y de verdad crearme que ha sido el mayor honor y el mayor privilegio servirlos a todos como comunidad, se los agrades como tres.

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MTS AV: Thanks, Leon, for the.

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MTS AV: for the report about what's going on. Is there any color you can add on a couple of things? I'm wondering…

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MTS AV: on auction proceeds. What are some of the arguments that are being made? And

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MTS AV: and… and solutions that are being… I know you haven't made a decision as a board, but…

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MTS AV: What's, what's, what's going on with that, and what's your feeling about what you think the.

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MTS AV: the outcome might be. So that's a discussion that we will be holding today, so I really don't have much to tell you at this point.

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MTS AV: So, I'm glad to come back and, you know, give you a little bit of color of what we discussed in today's meeting about the topic, but at this point, I honestly couldn't share anything with you, because we haven't gone through it, so…

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MTS AV: And what about the review of reviews report? What's the board… how's the board feeling about that?

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MTS AV: Well, I think, you know, that I am one of the board liaisons, along with Jim Galvin, and the board seems enthusiastic about the progress that the Review of Reviews work has been undertaking, and

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MTS AV: Of course, we are aware that there are certain topics that

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MTS AV: continue to be discussed at the community level. We are aware of the.

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MTS AV: of the timeline that it's been extended, right? It's been requested to be extended, and we agreed that we need to do this the better way possible, not the fastest way possible, right? So I think we're on the same line with that.

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MTS AV: at least from the briefings that Jim and I have provided to the board, it seems like the board is aligned with current work in the review reviews.

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MTS AV: working group, and of course, we will continue to liaise between the board and the group, and making the comments that we

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MTS AV: deemed to be relevant to that work, and hopefully we'll be able to conclude the work of the Review of Reviews Working Group soon.

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MTS AV: Does anyone else have questions for Leon?

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MTS AV: Avri, yeah, please go ahead. Just a quick one that has nothing to do with this except will you — oh, this is Avri speaking. Will you be remaining the liaison or will they be replacing you? And as I say, it's not an at-large issue, but it's my issue.

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MTS AV: Well, I certainly hope that they replace me, because otherwise I would continue to have some sort of link with the board not being in the board, so that would be awkward, right? It would be strange.

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MTS AV: This is something that will be definitely discussed during the workshop, and as you know, we have a.

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MTS AV: an organizational meeting of the board at the end of the AGM, and by that time, my replacement as liaison should already be aware of the kind of price he or she is getting.

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MTS AV: It could be a surprise.

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MTS AV: Any other questions for Leon?

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MTS AV: Alright. Well, you're welcome to stay. But I know that if you gotta go you gotta go. So whenever you need to. That's fine. Is Liz here in the room.

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MTS AV: And of course, thank you for your service, but we'll be doing that later, so…

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MTS AV: Mmm.

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MTS AV: So next we're supposed to hear from Elizabeth, Field, our ombuds, and so that we can learn a little bit about what she does and how she does it. But I guess she's not quite here in the room yet.

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MTS AV: Huh?

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MTS AV: So can you advance the agenda?

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MTS AV: It's sometimes good not to have your microphone on.

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MTS AV: Alright, so why don't we,

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MTS AV: jump right into, starting to talk about the, key topics for At Large.

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MTS AV: And we can, take a break and, talk to Liz when she arrives.

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MTS AV: Or she's arriving now.

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MTS AV: Okay.

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MTS AV: You can't even…

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MTS AV: Okay.

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MTS AV: Thank you. Good morning. Hello, everybody. It's a pleasure to be here, and I know many of you, but for those who maybe don't know me exactly yet, my name is

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MTS AV: Elizabeth Field, Liz, I'm the ICANN Ombuds, and I hope that most of you by now know that my role here in ICANN is to make sure that community members are treated fairly.

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MTS AV: and appropriately and with respect when doing their work for ICANN. One thing, I'm addressing a group of leaders here, and one thing I would like to

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MTS AV: mention when…

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MTS AV: I have many stories from the people who come and talk to me, so I've now been ombuds at ICANN for a little over 2 years, or just about 2 years now. And I have many really wonderful stories of people coming to me.

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MTS AV: about their interactions with leadership where it works very well, and I want to impress upon the leaders in ICANN the importance of the role of being a leader, and how people really do look to leaders

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MTS AV: Both for reassurance, for guidance, for examples of behavior in ICANN what's fair, appropriate, respectful. They do notice, and they notice really good things. I hear very good stories. I also hear when things don't go so well.

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MTS AV: So I just want to impress upon the leadership

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MTS AV: you as leaders, the importance of your role, the privilege of your role, the opportunity that you have in your roles as leaders to shape and shift

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MTS AV: the culture, how people work and behave in ICANN. And that's something I'm really interested in, that's something I'm very happy to support with, so I do invite people to bring things to me, and bring you as leaders, to bring issues, relational issues, concerns, things

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MTS AV: early, before they're an issue, and I'm here to help, and I'm here to help you problem solve, and I'm here to help you and your role as a leader be successful. So, thank you for the time to, speak, and I'm very happy if you have any questions for me as well.

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MTS AV: Any questions for Liz?

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MTS AV: I've certainly… oh, go ahead.

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MTS AV: Introduce yourself, please. Yes, hello, I'm Murray McKercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherchercherch

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MTS AV: So I'm back after an 8-year hiatus, so it's very happy to be here.

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MTS AV: But I did have a question.

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MTS AV: just relative to accessibility for, the issues related to accessibility, so it's, something that I'm very interested in. Love to talk to you about that further.

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MTS AV: I'd love to invite you to come talk to me, because it's something I'm quite passionate about. I have spent a portion of my career working on, well, the range of diversity, equity, inclusion, accessibility. It's an accessibility

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MTS AV: you know, both to participation. And I can. What are the barriers that you know, and they're not always as obvious as you think, and their solutions are quite. you know, there's a lot of creative ways, too. So I'm this is a conversation I'm really happy to have. So I'd love to talk to you. Thank you.

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MTS AV: Thank you.

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MTS AV: I can tell you that I've availed myself of meetings with Liz when there have issues that come up, and it's been very helpful, so please take her up on, on that offer to be a sounding board for something you're trying to resolve with another colleague, or… or anything of that sort. You know, let's…

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MTS AV: get things figured out early on, and to not let them fester, and Liz has a lot of great ideas, so…

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MTS AV: I definitely recommend.

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MTS AV: Yeah. Any other questions for Liz?

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MTS AV: Oh, please go ahead.

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MTS AV: Hi, Liz. Cheryl Langdon-Orr for the Transcript Record. Little question of history. You've done some fabulous work since you've been with us, and I really want to recognise and appreciate that. And I've been watching quite a few ombuds through the whole of the ICANN history, so…

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MTS AV: score there. But I just want to take you back to something that would have been on your to-do pile when you arrived, and that's work through those WSIS,

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MTS AV: Try that again. Workstream 2.

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MTS AV: There's a couple of things that are technically on the books. How are you planning on managing those?

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MTS AV: Or not.

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MTS AV: Well, so I'm happy to say that we've… the ICANN Ombuds Office has published a framework and process, and within that, it has answered all of the outstanding.

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MTS AV: WS2 recommendations that are in… within my competency as ombuds. Now, there is one outstanding recommendation that is not within my remit to answer, which is

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MTS AV: a panel. Oh, can you not hear me? Sorry. Is the panel.

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MTS AV: So that that's not within my remit to answer. But all of the other ones related to, you know, the things like time frames, how complaints and, you know, are handled, all of those have been answered. There should be we've, we've done a report and I think that's up already explaining how everything's been, published and handled and very happy. I think there were great recommendations.

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MTS AV: So I'm really happy to talk them through if you have other questions. But all of them are thankfully closed now, bar the one.

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MTS AV: Fantastic news and excellent to have it transcribed because, Mr Chairman, as a follow up on that, there are two glaring issues that have come out of

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MTS AV: various recommendations, be they review committees or the Workstream 2, that seem to be in this amorphous space of someone has to do something about empanelling one for the non-com.

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MTS AV: and one for the consideration of the Ombuds Office.

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MTS AV: I'm going to grow very old shortly, and they're still not going to be addressed. Don't care what the address says, can't do it, don't like it, go away, but there should be some response, and I suspect that might be a question for the Board.

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MTS AV: Noted.

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MTS AV: We'll take that on.

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MTS AV: I'm not a huge fan of Workstream 2, personally, but

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MTS AV: We do have a number of to-do items from it, so let's get through them.

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MTS AV: Other questions for Liz?

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MTS AV: Before we let her go.

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MTS AV: I mean, most of your meetings with those are in private. You don't normally have to air all your grievances in public like this, but, you know.

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MTS AV: Alright, so, How is AI affecting what you do?

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MTS AV: Oh, that's a very interesting question, actually. And I I am noticing some

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MTS AV: things. I noticed… I've been noticing some things for a few years, even before I came to ICANN.

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MTS AV: And not all of them are great, or… so obviously the work I do is relational. It's about people communicating and being in relationship. And what I was noticing

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MTS AV: Several years ago, was… there was a profile of, maybe people would be using, so you would be doing a mediation, for example.

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MTS AV: And people would be using… to communicate, they might be using, artificial intelligence to write to one another, and so the messages that they were writing to one another would be quite…

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MTS AV: Even tempered, and then you'd put them in a room, and the feelings were very strong and very… they were… so what was happening is this inconsistent, this incoherence between one set of messages and another set of messages that was actually causing much more

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MTS AV: problems than it was solving. And so, what I was seeing in that is the, I think.

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MTS AV: When people have been using.

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MTS AV: it for those relational things, it hasn't always had the best outcome. That's just in the space of conflict resolution and communication. Obviously, there's a lot of opportunities in things like data and analytics, Simulation.

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MTS AV: translation, you know, things like that. So there are opportunities in some of the

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MTS AV: technical, more algorithmic-type tasks, in the relational work, it can cause… I think it can be problematic and get in the way. So that's, you know, looking at it with both

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MTS AV: Both, both angles.

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MTS AV: Thanks for the question.

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MTS AV: I see… somebody named… last name iPhone, first name Michael.

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MTS AV: Has their hand up, so, why don't you go ahead?

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Michael Neely: How you doing? My name is Michael Neely.

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Michael Neely: It's nice to meet all of y'all. I'm honored to be here.

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Michael Neely: I have a question.

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Michael Neely: About, I'm in the music industry.

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Michael Neely: Alright, the business I run is called Global Music Conference.

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Michael Neely: And I want to know, how can AI At-large help.

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Michael Neely: protect artists from AI voice cloning.

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Michael Neely: It is a very big issue here.

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Michael Neely: And we're just needing some advice to… Stop it and make it.

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Michael Neely: People accountable for using it for the wrong reason.

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MTS AV: Thanks, Michael. This is Jonathan Zuck here. It's a very serious issue, and as somebody that works in movies, I feel very strongly about it as well. The actual issue of voice cloning is probably outside the remit of ICANN, and therefore outside the remit of the at-large community.

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MTS AV: However, there are things around that, such as creating fake websites that pretend to be of a particular artist, and, you know, maliciously registered websites that, that we do pay some attention to. But the actual act of voice cloning is probably something that's outside.

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MTS AV: Our remit, so,

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MTS AV: We'll have to look at some of the periphery a little bit in order to be helpful.

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Michael Neely: Yes, I can see that. Like, my focus is how people can mimic the voice and have websites get on. The legal issue is, and it's been noted, that

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Michael Neely: An example, Sonny was in jail.

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Michael Neely: And somebody cloned the son's voice to get the mom to send them money.

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Michael Neely: Yeah, no.

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MTS AV: I mean, it's a very serious issue. It's just this organization is limited to the DNS, the names and numbers system of the internet.

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MTS AV: And so that's where, that's where our area of focus.

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Michael Neely: Okay, I will…

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MTS AV: Talk to you more about some other ways at the to get at the problem.

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Michael Neely: Okay.

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MTS AV: For being on.

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Michael Neely: Thank you.

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MTS AV: I think you'll learn more as you stay on for more of the sessions.

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Michael Neely: Will do.

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MTS AV: Are there any other questions for Liz? Oh, Aubrey, please go ahead.

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MTS AV: Oh, alright. Hadia.

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MTS AV: Okay, thank you so much. This is Hadia for the record. I want to first thank Liz for the excellent work she's doing with the community, and thank her also for being with us today. I just wanted to bring up a topic that Liz and I discussed, like, some days ago, and it's regarding the, non-official

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MTS AV: groups, like the WhatsApp groups.

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MTS AV: And, namely, we were talking about some AFRALO, non-official groups, WhatsApp groups. And, and the main point here, and this is why I took the floor.

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MTS AV: is to note that these groups also need to adhere to ICANN standards of behavior and ICANN's anti-harassment policies.

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MTS AV: And going forward, AFRALO, we are going to add descriptions to these groups and also note in the description that ICANN's standards of behavior and anti-harassment policies.

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MTS AV: need to be, respected, even within those, non-official, groups. Thank you.

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MTS AV: And thank you, Hadia, for mentioning that. I think one thing that's quite important from a lot of the community members who speak to me is that, these spaces, such as email lists and group spaces.

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MTS AV: what really impacts participation, especially for people who are newer to ICANN, even if there is this sort of lower level of incivility exchanges that are

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MTS AV: maybe a little bit, disrespectful, or a lot disrespectful in some cases. And even if the people who aren't the target of the, maybe the exchange, they see and…

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MTS AV: are impacted by that and make sort of decisions to. Maybe it's not worth saying anything. Maybe it's not worth asking the question I was going to ask, because I don't really want to be the target of

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MTS AV: this type of comment. So I think, again, back to the really important role that leaders play in ensuring

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MTS AV: a safe and civil environment, it really is critical for participation, and in particular for the participation of the sustainability of the ICANN model, ensuring that new people are welcomed in, young people have a voice, people from

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MTS AV: wherever they are, whoever they are, can contribute and participate fully. So I think that's… thank you for raising that. I think those… all of those spaces create a sense of what the experience is for ICANN, so thank you, Hadia.

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MTS AV: Thank you. This is Avri speaking.

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MTS AV: It's a speculation that actually comes out of the cloning question and touches on other work and research I'm doing.

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MTS AV: The notion of us being able to tell.

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MTS AV: whether an AR presence that we're talking to has personhood or not gets harder and harder for us.

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MTS AV: And we may think we know, we don't always know whether we're dealing with a person or not. We certainly don't even know whether AI has reached that level or not, nor will we.

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MTS AV: So in dealing with an Ombuds type of issue.

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MTS AV: How do you…

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MTS AV: Discern that the them you're talking to is an AI. If an AI is being treated uncivil or someone that is considered, gee, I think that's an AI that I'm talking to is being treated uncivilly.

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MTS AV: How can you approach that?

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MTS AV: in a proper Ombudsy way.

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MTS AV: to sort of treat the possibility that you have a person, or even if they're not a person this year, they might be in 3 years.

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MTS AV: Because things do move that quickly. So how do you deal with the possible personhood, whether it's a clone or, you know, a self-generated? How do you start… have you started thinking about

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MTS AV: how to deal with that mix of persons who are AI, or may be AI, and those of us that

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MTS AV: Just imitate.

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MTS AV: And, you know.

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MTS AV: are more like LLMs than we are people. You know, how do you start to make that differentiation? Yes, if you've seen us in our meat stage, you know, you can tell.

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MTS AV: But if you've only seen us in online or in a remote state.

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MTS AV: How do you actually start to make — how do you discern that if you can't see me, if you can't smell my bad breath, that I'm not an AI but a person? Because it's —

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MTS AV: the cloning examples tells us it gets really hard, and if we could tell this year we won't be able to tell in 5 years.

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MTS AV: That's a great strategic question.

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MTS AV: And and I love it. Thank you. I mean, what I, I don't have a good answer is the is the short answer. The longer answer is that I think.

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MTS AV: We know, for example, that when we use, when we are not communicating face, the further removed we are from face-to-face communication, the easier it is to be uncivil.

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MTS AV: The harder it is, so whether it's a… we're communicating with a person or a machine.

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MTS AV: The easier it is for us to dehumanize.

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MTS AV: something when it is not mediated face to face. That's one thing. The second thing is, the harder it is for us, our brains work extra hard when we are communicating online.

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MTS AV: If we have a face online, it's a little bit easier. If we don't have a face online, it's a lot harder. So that means we downgrade, so if we're emailing somebody and our tone is, we think it's neutral, the recipient's brain downgrades it to

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MTS AV: maybe a little bit sub-neutral, a little bit not so nice. And so what you're talking about here is how do we discern? We are already, you know, without bringing in the mix of machine and human, we are already struggling, I think, to…

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MTS AV: maintain the…

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MTS AV: boundaries of what it is, you know, it's easier to dehumanize than it is, we work harder, so it is

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MTS AV: complex at best. And so what I, you know, say as preparation is it's really important when we are

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MTS AV: thinking about the mode of communication and who's on the other end, the intentional Bringing in intentional, efforts to…

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MTS AV: the civility, the respect, dignity in our communications.

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MTS AV: irrespective of what we know, think we know, or don't know. It's not very… doesn't get to the heart of what you're saying, but we're not even… we should get better at just humans first, I guess.

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MTS AV: Can I quick, quick follow up is…

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MTS AV: Are you saying that it is okay to be uncivil to a machine-based person That isn't a meat-based person.

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MTS AV: I would say that again, as somebody who works in human behavior and has worked for many, many years.

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MTS AV: in human behavior, and, you know, with the range of psychological tools available, I would say it's not great practice.

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MTS AV: right? If anything that gives you the habit you build, your brain will be forming habits, and I certainly would not want to be building a habit of using destructive, demeaning

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MTS AV: language, irrespective of person, irrespective of machine. I don't think that's a good habit to get into any more than I want to be eating Doritos for breakfast.

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MTS AV: Sorry, anyone who eats Doritos for breakfast, I… you know, I just don't think… I don't think it's a good habit.

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MTS AV: That's… that would… you know, I think our… what we should be practicing is

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MTS AV: you know, the humanity, the dignity that we have with others, so that's… without sounding preachy.

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MTS AV: Hallelujah. What up?

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MTS AV: Your hand is. Claire, then go ahead.

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MTS AV: But…

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MTS AV: Claire Craig for the record. Thanks for coming, Liz, and it's always good to have you here. And thank you, Jonathan, for raising the issue of AI.

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MTS AV: So I have two short questions. One.

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MTS AV: You spoke about relationships, and how do you… in the absence of an ICANN framework, where we know that AI is one of those things that's just happening.

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MTS AV: How do you treat with?

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MTS AV: Those relational issues that may occur due to the… where it's different when you're online compared to when you're in person.

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MTS AV: And just a follow-up to what Hadia was speaking about with the… also in the absence of

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MTS AV: specific tools by ICANN where we're using WhatsApp and other tools

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MTS AV: How do you treat with the fact that

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MTS AV: Persons may choose not to be on those tools because, you know, there is no… it's not official, and they may feel offended, or left out, or whatever, when those tools are being used.

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MTS AV: So, thank you. So, it's two questions. So, one question is how… to… sort of what… how to help people across those

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MTS AV: you know, what are the in terms of building relationship across these systems? Okay, which are difficult and challenging. And they, you know, you already are starting at a little bit of a deficit. And I think the one thing. So that first question, the second question I'll come back to. So the first question is the

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MTS AV: I think, is every is a discipline that people who use these tools, all of us.

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MTS AV: An awareness about the impact

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MTS AV: that using… when we are communicating via Zoom, via email, that each of those removes… that we have to work that much harder to build relationship, we have to pause.

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MTS AV: It's again. It's a discipline that all of us are responsible for. All of us are

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MTS AV: have the ability to do. But I think it's we need to be aware of the disadvantage at times that these tools can bring to our communication relationship. Not always. But if that awareness helps.

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MTS AV: And we also need to.

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MTS AV: Slow things down. So when I work with groups, I talk a lot about

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MTS AV: if you've sent something too quick, we often rush to send something without thinking about the sender, how that… you know, so there's just… there are practices that help. And of course, anything like this, where people come together, they work virtually 90% of the time, but that 10% where they come together.

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MTS AV: and see the human hear the stories from the people. It makes it harder for us to

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MTS AV: take the steps of, oh, I'll send this email quickly and hard. So relationships, that building relationships, getting to know people, who they are, what their interests are, why they are motivated to be part of the group.

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MTS AV: is one thing. The discipline and the practice of recognizing that these tools may make it harder for us to

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MTS AV: both how we receive something, we can receive it more negatively than it was intended. So, taking time to stop and pause before we react and checking our assumptions. So that's one. The second question, Claire, was…

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MTS AV: The WhatsApp and the informal groups where you hadia was speaking about having a, not statement, having the code of conduct as part of those groups. But since, sorry, I should slow down.

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MTS AV: But since those groups are informal, then we're not obligated to be members of those groups. And therefore, even with the

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MTS AV: conduct, behavioral conduct. Persons may choose not to be a member of those groups, and

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MTS AV: Can become disadvantaged by not being there because they miss out, but again, it's a personal choice. So how should we treat with things like that where persons decide, hey.

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MTS AV: you see this group, I really want nothing to do with it, and, you know, ensure that work gets done and communications take place in a timely fashion.

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MTS AV: Yeah, I mean, that's a harder question, I guess. It's hard for… to answer without…

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MTS AV: maybe very more specifics, and I think, you know, I would always be interested in understanding why someone has chosen not to be part of it, too busy, too, you know, if they're disadvantaged, that's something I would be concerned about. So, you know, if things are happening in an informal space that is an informal space, but actually is disadvantaged.

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MTS AV: you know, so I think there's a lot… I mean, I'm happy to kind of go into… I'd have 20 questions back about that, of course. But I think, yeah, I think it's…

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MTS AV: you know, they… you as volunteers need to have all the tools at your disposal to do your work, and if something is missing, or you aren't able to do that, that needs to be addressed, but we can… we can talk if there's more. Yeah, I think this…

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MTS AV: Thank you, Liz, and thank you, also, Claire. I have a related question about social media, and in particular, X.com.

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MTS AV: So there is or there was an account ICANN at large on x.com and apparently this account has been suspended as having violated rules.

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MTS AV: I don't know the details, and so that's my question. So, why the account is… has been blocked with, I don't know, harmful or inappropriate content, or whatever, or it was a decision of someone? I just asked the question, yeah, we don't use it anymore.

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MTS AV: Anybody has an answer about x.com, no?

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MTS AV: Okay, so… So, so you have ICANN at large, and the account has been suspended as having violated rules.

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MTS AV: Okay, nobody's involved. We'll have to look into it. I don't think we have an answer right now, but thanks for bringing it up. I think it's to be followed, because it's, or it was at least official communication channel towards the external world, and it's suspended.

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MTS AV: Right.

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MTS AV: Great Olivier. I'm gonna take your question, and then I think I'm gonna make that the end, Hadia, just because we gotta move on to the rest of the agenda. But wow! It's been fun having you here.

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MTS AV: Olivier, please go ahead.

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Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: Yeah, thanks very much, Jonathan Olivier Caponoblon speaking. I didn't think I was going to ask the question in person, but fair enough. The question I had for Elizabeth was, to what extent are you planning on using AI in your work?

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Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: And the reason why I'm asking this is because, in parallel, I'm checking at what's going on in the IETF, and there is a… an increase. There appears to be a strong increase in the number of

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Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: new proposals coming in, some of which might be created by AI, and so there's a discussion going on as to whether AI should be used to treat AI stuff, too. Otherwise, how are you going to be able to keep up with it?

304
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Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond: So, are you planning in any way on using, in your work?

305
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MTS AV: And over the next year, this is abs… oh, sorry, is that… over the next year, this is something that I will be looking at, at the… and I think, you know, I have a distinction about when and where it might be appropriate, and when and where it is not appropriate. And currently, the distinction that I am working with, obviously, as Ombuds.

306
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MTS AV: Privacy, confidentiality are paramount. So many of these platforms and tools cannot

307
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MTS AV: well, they don't give me confidence. Others may have a different view, but I… I would not, you know, use them for analyzing cases, etc. I think, again, the work… part of the work that I do is…

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MTS AV: relational and about human relationships and communication. It is very important that people have that connection

309
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MTS AV: for me, it is important that people have that connection with me, that they know that what they are getting is they are getting a human response. Now, now, having said that, there are… I am certainly noticing an increase in what appears to be

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MTS AV: lengthier complaints or lengthier submissions to the office that, you know, have some of the hallmarks, may or may not be, I'm working on that as a theory, and that certainly does increase, some of the workload, so that, you know, I would be looking… this is something I'm looking at over

311
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MTS AV: the next year, but always within the boundaries of what I do, how I do it, privacy, confidentiality, and people's trust in

312
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MTS AV: their contacts to the office, their communications with me being with me. So, you know, there are things I think it could be very helpful for. Data analytics is what I've, you know, one of the things I've mentioned. There may be efficiency.

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MTS AV: systematic things, but again, always with this view about the purpose of the office and the community's trust in

314
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MTS AV: Getting to me and working with me. So thank you, Olivier.

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MTS AV: All right, thanks, Olivier. We're gonna cut it off here, just as we're coming up on the end of the meeting, but Elizabeth, thanks so much for joining us, and we have a very good working relationship.

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MTS AV: With Liz, and you'll see more of her later in the week. So.

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MTS AV: Thanks for coming and introducing yourself.

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MTS AV: Between Ozan and Avri, how are we handling the next piece of this with?

319
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MTS AV: Respect to the issues of the day.

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MTS AV: Probably put up the slides. This is offering.

321
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MTS AV: It's a good first step.

322
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MTS AV: Okay, and this is Avri, and I'll start talking. I don't know, Azan, if you had something you wanted to say up front.

323
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MTS AV: If not, I'll start talking. And this really comes off of the point you made at the beginning, which is, we are here, everybody else is here, this is a time for, at large, ALAC and at large folk to be pushing the.

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MTS AV: The points that At-Large and AAALAC have decided that they care about that are the critical points for us. You know, the slide presentation, if you go through, is quite careful to say when you're speaking of one of the points, speak of the points.

325
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MTS AV: If you're speaking otherwise, that's, of course, your liberty, but make sure that you annotate it.

326
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MTS AV: as this is my personal position, or this is the position of people from country X, or what have you. So, to get that differentiation in. So, and I don't know where we are on time, but I'm sure we don't have the 20 minutes that we originally had.

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MTS AV: Right. So what we have is, and you'll see within the slide deck, so we may be able to whip through it quickly, but the at-large message points here are, you know, a number, and I'm just gonna…

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MTS AV: Say them so that you've all at least heard them, if not just read them. The international domain names and universal acceptance. And if you look at that one, that's not resolved.

329
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MTS AV: And it is actually expanding.

330
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MTS AV: That things that are a concern under that rubric grow. There's the DNS abuse mitigation.

331
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MTS AV: We only mentioned PDP-1 here, but we must be aware that PDP-2 is upon us.

332
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MTS AV: New GTLD program 2026 round that's at this point centering largely on the work being done of those

333
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MTS AV: few brave souls that are reviewing the thousand plus applications to see if there's something that is of concern to the end user community and such.

334
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MTS AV: There's the Latin diacritics PDP, which I think is close to a termination point. But is it a termination point that solves the problems we all had?

335
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MTS AV: System for standardized access disclosure, supplemental recommendations, a perennial topic, but one that has become popular again.

336
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MTS AV: The review of reviews is something I just don't want to talk about. But basically, we've had to extend ourselves by at least one meeting, which is our unit of time. We go from meeting to meeting. So we've extended our time, or at least we've requested to extend our time.

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MTS AV: from to another meeting. We're waiting for answers, which means this is really a time to, you know. Hopefully, you've everybody has said what they need to say, and now they just have to make sure that we got it right and solved it right.

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MTS AV: As opposed to that continuous improvement programs seems everybody's starting to crank them out. You know. Where are we?

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MTS AV: And then, FY28 operating plan and budget key dates. Now, one of the things that we normally do here, if there's enough time, is for each of these bullet points, there is one of you.

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MTS AV: That is the shepherd of that.

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MTS AV: you know. Okay, the only one I could speak of is review of reviews. Jonathan and I are the are the shepherds on that one so could speak on all the others. It's another one of you.

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MTS AV: And I don't know where we're at time-wise, that whether I could go through the slides, put 'em up and say, "Hey, Shepherd, you got something to add?

343
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MTS AV: Or not? Do we have time for that? If so, let's go to the next… 5 minutes.

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MTS AV: Okay, well, let's not waste it with me talking. But let's go. Okay.

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MTS AV: IDN, the shepherds, anything to add to what's on there? Anything you want to make sure that when I go talk to somebody about IDN being relatively ignorant, that I won't get wrong, that I will make a point? No.

346
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MTS AV: So we're really fine. What's on there is good enough guidance for us to move forward.

347
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MTS AV: Oh, you're an IDN specialist, a shepherd type. Why don't you come? Quickly, please. Edmund.

348
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MTS AV: He did stick his hand up.

349
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MTS AV: Yeah.

350
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MTS AV: Edmund here. So it has been updated. The last 2 bullet points should be updated. I guess that it the the final report. What has been published just a little while back.

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MTS AV: That's it, and we will have updates from the staff team on the actual implementation of those guidelines. So, my quick question to you is, and there's nothing about those that we should be trying to comment on, we should just be support, support, support?

352
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MTS AV: Well, when we hear from the actual implementation, we should respond. But the public comment process is complete. And the final recommendations were are out. Okay, thank you.

353
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MTS AV: Next, if nobody had a follow up question, I'm going to quickly move on. DNS abuse mitigation PDP-1 definitely not one of my strengths being where I come out of.

354
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MTS AV: The people that always have the views about privacy and other things. So are we… where are we at? Shepherds, anything you want to add to what's there?

355
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MTS AV: Any hands, any of that. So basically read through this.

356
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MTS AV: And when you're talking, know that this is where you're rooting yourself. And if you go beyond that, like me sort of saying, and I care about privacy, then I'm obviously in a field that's beyond where we've necessarily gone.

357
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MTS AV: Oh, see, I managed to sneak that in, though. Next, please.

358
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MTS AV: continued there.

359
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MTS AV: Okay, the new gTLD round, you know, we've got the review group.

360
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MTS AV: It's still only 2 people doing all that work.

361
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MTS AV: I'm remarkably brave and remarkably resilient people.

362
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MTS AV: Huh?

363
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MTS AV: I was going to say to groups and AI.

364
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MTS AV: Oh, well, that's fine with me. For me, AI is just another person like the rest of you, and I can't tell the difference.

365
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MTS AV: So anyhow, there's the responsibilities there. We've gotten a couple really good presentations for those folks. Is there anything that the Shepherds would like to add to what's on that slide that will guide us in our conversations?

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MTS AV: Thank you so much, Avery Hannah Frank, for the record. I guess it's complete. You have covered everything we have been. Apart from that, we are going to do an update during OFB session, so…

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MTS AV: Fantastic. So if you care about that, make sure you're there listening at the OSU. Stay tuned. Fortunately, there, for example, Murray, he's part from the GARC, and he's here, we have Barry, I see shita, and I see… anything else? Well, not so far, but we have

368
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MTS AV: Few members of GARC here, fortunately.

369
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MTS AV: Thank you so much. You've got all my praise for your bravery for tackling this.

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MTS AV: Next slide. Latin diacritics. That's over right?

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MTS AV: Everybody's happy, that one's moving on, we've got nothing to say about that one anymore than, other than yay.

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MTS AV: Correct me if I'm wrong. If you happen to be the shepherd, I mean, stop me if I say something that's untrue.

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MTS AV: Latin diacritics.

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MTS AV: That's that's that's also. And we out as said, sorry back and forth.

375
00:58:22.210 --> 00:58:26.960
MTS AV: As said, thank you. Now, that's always been…

376
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MTS AV: Topic for great conversation. Are the shepherds happy with the description?

377
00:58:31.340 --> 00:58:38.559
MTS AV: Does this really give us good guidance? Do you feel guided properly? And knowing what you want to say, and what you talk about.

378
00:58:40.140 --> 00:58:41.670
MTS AV: No? Okay.

379
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MTS AV: Move on to then. I'm really just doing a quick check here, just to make sure there's no…

380
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MTS AV: Yeah, review of review. Say what you want to say. Really.

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MTS AV: as one of the shepherds here, if I haven't heard it from you yet, please tell me. You know, if there's anything that you've been feeling totally pent up and not able to say to the Review of Review folks, as

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MTS AV: one of the shepherds from here, even though I'm a co-chair of there, make sure I've heard it.

383
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MTS AV: I cannot take into account that which I haven't heard, even though I have a very vivid imagination.

384
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MTS AV: Okay.

385
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MTS AV: Next one, the continuous improvements. Here's one that I've managed to stay relatively ignorant about, because review of reviews isn't allowed to talk about it so great. I didn't have to understand it.

386
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MTS AV: Anybody want to add anything to our… to our guidance to us?

387
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MTS AV: As we go forward talking about the CIP, I was taught that I'm not allowed to call it SIP. I must call it CIP or something like that. That much I've learned, that much guidance I've gotten.

388
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MTS AV: But okay, so everybody feels feels properly guided here, feels they understand. Next one.

389
01:00:05.710 --> 01:00:06.830
MTS AV: Oh, yes.

390
01:00:07.890 --> 01:00:12.569
MTS AV: Fiscal year 28, operating plan, budget plan, key dates.

391
01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:19.680
MTS AV: This is not really guidance, this is key dates, this is… this is… Yeah!

392
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MTS AV: This is a maelstroms we're about to end… enter.

393
01:00:23.390 --> 01:00:31.840
MTS AV: And are those that are shepherding this interested in adding anything more here other than dates and stay tuned? Yes.

394
01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:45.220
MTS AV: Please. Claire Craig, just for persons to be aware that the public comment sessions is the 8th of December, and that's a little bit earlier than normal because of, I think it's because of the IGF.

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MTS AV: So, stay tuned for that. Thanks.

396
01:00:48.450 --> 01:00:54.760
MTS AV: Okay, thank you. And the planning will also be at the OFB session on Sunday.

397
01:00:55.020 --> 01:00:57.589
MTS AV: afternoon. Fantastic. Thank you.

398
01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:00.169
MTS AV: So, important to be there if you care.

399
01:01:00.350 --> 01:01:07.580
MTS AV: Next one. Is that it? Is that the last? Yeah. Okay, there's the resources. Went through those fairly quickly.

400
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MTS AV: If I went through it too quickly, Find the Shepherd. Ozan, is there anything that's in these slides that I left out that I should have said that needs to be said?

401
01:01:21.930 --> 01:01:30.530
MTS AV: Thank you, Alred de Sozan, for the record. Not really, I think I just want to thank everyone who contributed to this

402
01:01:30.970 --> 01:01:39.199
MTS AV: Slide deck and a topic reference document. Both documents links are available through the Wiki Agenda page.

403
01:01:39.450 --> 01:01:45.459
MTS AV: Thank you very much. So, with that, I have rushed through it, hopefully covered it. Back to you.

404
01:01:46.120 --> 01:01:59.989
MTS AV: Thanks, Aubrey. Sorry for the cut into your time. We can't go over on this session because of interpretation, so with that, I'm going to just call this welcome session adjourned, and see you all at the coffee break. Thank you.

405
01:02:03.660 --> 01:02:23.650
MTS AV: Just while we're still in the room, we can stop the recording and interpretation. By the way, we don't need it for this, so if you don't understand what I'm saying, but I know everyone will, because it's just basic, useful information. So, I'm Gisela, for those who don't know me yet. I can see a few new faces, and I'll make sure that we'll all introduce ourselves.

406
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MTS AV: Firstly, a warm welcome to Bali. And needless to say, it is warm out there. So nice and cool inside here. So make sure that also in the evening you take mosquito spray. They do have some at most of the restaurants, by the way.

407
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MTS AV: So we look forward to having you here in our sessions. Just a reminder that I send out daily emails with the at-large sessions. The main sessions are all on the main ICANN website and schedule.

408
01:02:49.520 --> 01:03:00.780
MTS AV: And please do bookmark the At-Large wiki pages which have all the updated agendas on them. You will always find the link on the main ICANN website schedule as well.

409
01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:16.869
MTS AV: The Zoom rooms are only displayed 24 hours prior to the sessions. Just in case you're wondering. And a reminder for attendance, we do take attendance in the first 15 minutes of the session. So if you're not attending a session, please email staff with your apologies.

410
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MTS AV: Just coming back to today, we have the 3:00 here in this room, the AAALAC open house. Please join us for that.

411
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MTS AV: At 4.30, we have the session with the NextGen and Fellows, extremely important. And then at 5.30, we go into the NextGen Fellows networking event, which will be held just outside here, an excellent opportunity to meet with newcomers and also to get them involved with At-Large.

412
01:03:43.720 --> 01:03:49.039
MTS AV: Just for the fun stuff, we have the coffee break here and on the ground floor.

413
01:03:49.040 --> 01:04:13.979
MTS AV: So please don't get distracted if you do need to get to your next session on time. For lunch, there will be food outlets on the ground floor or there's there's the many options at the Westin Hotel. The shuttle service, I'm sure you may have seen it. It's also on the main, schedule. And then just as a reminder for Monday, there's the welcome reception in the evening, 6 p.m. onwards. It's at the Heritage Garden.

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MTS AV: which I believe is on the beach side of the Westin Hotel, and all you need is your badge, so please bring your badge, no badge, no entry. Thank you, and with this, please, the coffee break is just outside the room, and see you at 3 o'clock for the next ALAC session.